Category: Let's talk
I know many might consider this a herecy, but I've never minded things like that. Do any of you feel that braille is a dying art? That it's no longer needed most of the time? I do. The exceptions I make are things like signs on walls, braille menus and the like, and quick things like grocery lists. I also wish that braille could be found on regular store-bought items. It's also useful in mathematics or for tactile imaging. But as a reading medium, I feel it's rather antiquated. I know this sounds strange coming from me, since I love most old things, but it just seems to me that braille is too big and bulky. I mean, for one print book, we often need several volumes. Unless you use something like a notetaker, you can't just go and write a quick note in braille whenever you want. I know, some of you are thinking of the slate and styalis, but I've never understood that either. It seems like a quill pen to me, completely out-of-date and complicate. I mean, I could figure it out, but with the time it takes me to use one of those I could already write a page with a regular braille device. If anything, I'll use my Jot-A-Dot
http://www.jotadot.com
to make quick notes when I want a hard copy. But overall, in this age of portable laptops, recorders of all kinds, scanning software and e-books, is braille really that necessary?
Personally, I love Braille. I do believe that it is a dying art, but I don't think that it should be completely wiped away. I know that there are a lot of people who dont' like it, or they like all the technology that's now available, but I still believe that there are quite a few of us out there who still like to use regular Braille. . Don't get me wrong, I do like the newer technology and everything, but I still love to have Braille around. I'm one who also uses a slate and stylus. I don't have a Brailler, so the only thing that I have is the slate. I don't have any trouble using it at all. In fact, I've become very fast with it. Now, as for books, yes, depending on how long a particular book is, there can be quite a few volumes, but I do love to read, and having all the volumes doesn't really bother me. I do use the audio books as well, but a lot of times, I'd rather read the materials myself, rather than having someone else do it for me. In short, I do believe that Braille is beneficial, and important.
While technology is great, don't discount braille. I learned to read it when my classmates were learning to read print. While it may be easy and convenient to listen to a book, there's nothing like being able to actually read it. Listening is not the same as reading. I know lots of blind people who don't know how to read braille. That's really sad. Thad'd be like a sighted person who only used technology and never bothered to learn print. In my oppinion, listening to audiobooks, while convenient is a slacker way of gaining information. Sure, braille may be more bulky, but there some things that audiobooks don't always give you, like how to spell a person's name. Personally, I find reading to be more engaging than listening to something. When I was in college, i would have to listen to audiobooks. I ended up taking braille notes. These were easier for me to learn from. Also, I only needed to listen to things once, as opposed to having to repeat chapters. Perhaps they should invent a smaller more compact form of braille. When you read things yourself, you use a lot more of your brain my oppinion. I don't think I could ever not use braille. Just my oppinion
bw
There is actually grade three braille although it's not widely used and from the looks of it, rather complicated. I aggree about spelling names and general words. I have to write the word down to see how it's spelled.
All though I am an audiotory reader I think that braille should not die.
Even though I have a computer it would be nice to have a braille display for reading things out loud and to proof read things.
Not to mention braille menu's and the like.
Plus many note-takers and things use a braille keyboard which can be easier to write with some times.
I think braille is important and it should stay. I didn't use it for a few years now because i use my computer and i have to say that i am not happy with my spelling of English and also Greek words. By reading braille we learn how words are spelled and we improove our spelling. I think in general people who don't know braille are bad spellers most of the time. I agree that braille books take space. Perhaps if braille displays could be less expensive people could buy them and read what's on the screen as well as listening to the screen reader. If they were cheep i would buy one but unfortunately they are not.
Yes I think braille is a dying art, but it shouldn't be stoped all together. I don't use it as offten as I used to because of the new technoligy. I also agree about the spelling it is easier to learn to spell from braille. My spelling isn't that good iether. Yet I remember my primary school teacher saying I would grow up a good speller because of theese things like talking dictionaries.
I agree partly about spelling. Seeing the words in braille does help. However, I also grew up with a talking dictionary and that helped a great deal.
I still use and prefer Braille if possible. For school, I am better able to learn things like math and subjects requiring diagrams thru Braille, tactile diagrams, and models, rather than listening to someone explain/describe it. I also like getting books from my shelves (which for now are mostly magazines and material I had at school), to physically read them. And I have most of my journal in Braille as well so that I can go back to reading it whenever I feel like. I also prefer using Braille for a recipe book, a calender, and writing short documents, notes, and labling. But for reading books that I want to keep that might otherwise take up several Braille volumes, I scan the print book or get it from the Internet. So that's what I prefer for reading-type material in college, to read it by screen-reader; that way I can easily jump to what I need to read and take notes in another document, and it's also because I wouldn't have room to keep too many large volumes of books. And for audio, I mainly like them for long fictional books because I like when the reader acts out the characters when reading the story.
I agree with the person in Post 3 who compared reading Braille to reading print. I think even with all the talking products and other auditory technology, that a person should still learn Braille. Technology can break down and may be expensive to purchase, but one doesn't need electricity or batteries to read or write Braille, and it's way cheaper to buy a slate and stylus and find some paper to write on. But even with talking technology, I think Braille can still be useful. I like it because I can quietly use my notetaker while someone is talking to me, and (when I use the notetaker as my computer's Braille display), I likereading what I am listening to, especially when I'm needing to edit a document and check how something is written/spelled.
Agree with posts two and three.
I prefer braille rather than having somneone read things to me. I know I can just use the computer with jaws or whatever, but if I can't get to a computer, I have one of those slate and note books where you put the paper inside the thing and write ... kind of upside if that makes sense. I use braille whenever I can because I need to be able to phisically read things to get any information out of it, but if I try to listen to a tape or something, I have to listen to it about 3 or 4 times to get enough out of it. I know someone who lost his sight about 2 years ago and he's never really bgothered to learn braille and just has talking things or get someone to read things to him. Also someone in my business class at college has been blind all his life and still prefers to avoid braille and use the computers and things. I think it's sad that braille isn't used as much and that's the only way we're going to read or do written work if and when the computer breaks down.
Two points.
1., A rehash of what has already been said. I've seen people on here with horrific spelling (and I do not mean foreigners or people who make typos by the dozen, I belong in both categories, those are actually people who, clearly, have no idea how to spell). I bet those peoploe do not know braille, and not being able to spell closes many doors. Also correct usage of "," "." and other non alphabet characters is something that is almost impossible to learn by listening to audio since such characters are hardly ever read. Also subjects like math, programming etc are much more accessible by using braille (or braille displays).
2. For those who speak two or more languages and need to read text on the computer (downloads or books) such a task would be almost impossible unless correct languages were installed for the screen reader if it weren't for braille. After years and years I can sort of read Icelandic with English Jaws but I cannot read German or Danish, but if I see the braille characters I can do so. So unless you live in either a totally mono linguistic world or you have the ability to install whatever language you need relying on speech alone, even with fancy schmancy technology, you will have difficulty.
I think braille might have some comeback, in science especially, with the addition of new printers that print graphs (to label data points, the axis etc, graphs and such are almost impossible to produce with audio). There may be lots of other reasons but those are at least two major ones why learning braille is essential, even in the electronic world.
cheers
-B
I love tactile stuff like graphs, maps etc, so it's definitely useful there. As for languages, I'd love to get ahold of a braille display that could handle Greek, but unfortunately, the only one I have is on my Braille Note, which, of course, doesn't recognise the language. It's also almost impossible to get any Greek braille in the United States, though I had a friend ship me a few books so I could start learning it and add that to my writing knowledge on the computer. Thank The Gods for Hal.
I was about to make the first point put forth by wildibrew. While you can use dictation software to speak words in to your computer, thereby posibly avoiding any spelling issues, I feel it is very important to have command of some sort of written system of communication. Granted, if you are 90 years old and have just lost your ability to read print, Braille will most likely not be the proper solution in terms of accessing things, but in general, some sort of written language is necissary. I'm willing to bank on the assumption that most of the people on this site, or anywhere else who do not possess some sort of written language skill, also suffer from the ability to properly formulate a sentece. Braille can not die, just because most blind people think they no longer need it. Those who are deaf-blind, and many blind people for that matter, still prefer it as their primary means of reading/writing.
I do agree that if you use a screen reader on a computer, you can here how the words are spoken and pronounced, but the French or German brail codes are quite easy to fine and learn. German can be a bit annoying but you need to be able to read things from a textbook the same as everyone else and it's kind of rude to sit with your back to the rest of the class on the computer when they're all sitting round the tables writing not on the computers.
A blind person not knowing how to read Braille is like a sighted person not knowing how to read print. Us not using Braille is the same thing, like a sighted person saying that they're unwilling to read print, and that print is a dying art. It could be said that the print book is dying, with the invention of ebooks, but I don't think most people would say that. I do not believe Braille is dying, and if it ever does, we as blind people are going to be in a world of hurt. It's no surprise that the vast majority of blind folks who are employed are Braille readers, and use it in their jobs. I think this is because, although audio is great, it doesn't teach us how to spell words properly, or write properly. The blind friends I have who are hooked on audio alone are not very good at spelling, grammar, or writing in general. I do love technology, and I do believe that tech and Braille can and should work hand in hand. Sighted children are taught how to use technology, but also how to read and write with pencil and paper. So should it be with blind children. If we don't teach, and enforce the use of Braille, then we do a terrible disservice to the future blind.
I agree. It's such a shame when I find out that someone doesn't have very good grammar or writing capabilities, because of the fact that they either weren't taught Braille, or they just let it slip through their hands, because they choose to rely on technology for every little thing.
Well, uh, eye ewes uh brayl reel good, and eye no how to right even gooder, and eye dont ewes run on sent ences, so eye think ewe fokes are barking up the rong tree, and cheque out my spelling, and eye dair yew to find fault with it. Seriously, I agree with posts 12 and 16 in particular, although everyone has raised good points here. Don't forget that a computer can't do much with music either, and if you need to read music while learning a song, or do theory assignments in class such as taking musical dictation, there's nothing that will take the place of braille.
Lou
Damn that music theory! I hated taking it in high school. lol The book was in braille, but the other kids had to fill stuff in while listening to a recording while I jsut sat there.
Yes!!! its needed. so many people can't spell, take a number, balance a check book ETC. I realize that most of these things can be done on a computer or whatever, but what about playing a card game or any other game that might be brailled?? Yes to me its important.
It's even more important when I'm supposed to be reading something out for a presentation. I was trying to do a presentation with a couple of other people in my class at college tonight and one was using her braille note and the other was using the computer. I was on the computer anyway, but one of the other people in the group decided to see what it would be like for me to read something out from the computer seeing as I was already there. I ended up using the braille ihn the end because I can slow jaws down and let it read out, but for me to repeat what jaws is saying to the rest of the class would have just taken forever.
I don't think braille should be out of style but I do use my compute and other technology a lot more now.
I do not think that braille should disappear. I, personally, use braille all of the time, whether I use it on my BrailleNote, books, etc etc. And even though there are many different volumes in certain books, it's better to read it than to have someone else read it, in my opinion. I really don't listen to audio books very much--I personally think that they're kind of boring and they put me to sleep. Unless it's an educational book, which I know that I would have to pay attention to, obviously. That is why I don't really use it that much, unless it's for school.
I don't really listen to audio books. If I did, I'd probably have to write something down so I can read it my self later.
I am a total tech head, but there's something relaxing and comforting about holding a book in your hands, turning the pages, and having a moment of silence. Sometimes getting everything audibly can just give me headaches. there's something to be said for quietness.
Jen
Oh man, Jen and B, and all who had the same idea, so much word! It actually gets me quite angry when people spout the, Braille is antiquated and outmoded, line, more so because the people one hears it most from are disability service providers of one sort or another. People teaching the kids, or arranging for materials for the university students, or trying to justify getting rid of that pesky great braille library that has to be stored somewhere. And I see their point, but there's a whole stack of angles that aren't included in the blanket, audiobooks and talking computers and voice notetakers are the answer to everything, statement. Like the really strong, concrete decline in literacy in educational institutions that have stopped pushing braille on kids. I thought I had a good reference for some stats I saw on this, but it seems to have deserted me. Bugger.
Like the previously mentioned mathematical and scientific workings. Like music, theory and practical, composition and sightreading. Try that without a hardcopy under your fingers.
Like the notes we take with us, for speeches and presentations, for tutorial discussions and business meetings, that we need to read from without a delay for the tech to catch up, and preferably without something talking away in our ear when we need to listen and take notes.
Or switching between languages, or those weird multi-lingual documents you end up with when trying to learn a new one, all strange accent guides and vocab lists, and possibly the least speech-software-friendly thing imaginable.
And while I'm at it, portable braille displays and braille notetakers kind of undermine the, Braille is too bulky, argument.
So, that was long and ranty, but I do think that all evidence indicates that blind kids need a good grounding in braille, and the best access to braille resources available, whether or not they choose to use it in later life. It doesn't suit everyone, but it's sure not outdated.
I think the children's books from National Braille Press are a great tool to encourage kids' use of braille. I also like the Fisher Price Alphabet Magnets that have the braille on them, too.
Lou
I used to get the little kids' books from NBP. Are they twin vision? I'm not sure if they are or not. I remember reading twin vision books when I was little.
All very excellent points resonant. I couldn't have said it b better myself.
Jen
Amen, Resonant. Awesome post.
I think all of you have made interesting and valid points. I can't speak for others who feel that braille is becoming obsolete, but I suppose, in my case, it was because I personally very rarely use it that I'd come to this conclusion. However, as many of you said, it would definitely come in handy in situations like reading music (I'd seriously love to have some bouzouki instruction and dromoi *Greek scales* written out) , in sciences and in mathematics. I also love things like braille maps and graphs, but very rarely get to use them. I was a bit annoyed with myself for posting the topic on how people prefer to read and the braille one, but I see now that they're two different things and I've learned alot from this. While I still prefer reading books and most documents with the computer, I now have a better understanding of the importance of braille. Thank you. *smile*
Hi all,
I agree with what's been said. Braile must not die. It has so many uses like in labeling, menues, and a lot of notetakers use it in some way. Braille is also esential for deaf blind. I love technology as muchas a lot do, and I don't read braille books, braille is wonderful and must stay.
Hi all,
really interesting topic here. Firstly, although I don't read braille books anymore because they're too big etc, I do think braille is important. All blind people in schools should learn it simply because they can learn to spell and see how things are presented on a page, and they can also see punctuation usage too. They should learn both grade 1 and 2, since grade 1 is really the key to learning spelling, and grade 2 is good for shorthand and is more widely used. When I learnt braille in junior school, it was great because I'd learn to spell a word both in Grade 1 and 2. I used to use braille all the time for everything up to about 5 years ago, then I got competent with computers and the braille usage kind of stopped big time for me. Nowadays, I use braille at university when dealing with my class hand-outs, because I can see how stuff is spelt and punctuation usage. This is particularly important for me as I study foreign languages, and need to learn subtle differences in punctuation rules between English and other languages. However, because I don't read braille nearly as much as I used to, my punctuation isn't great at times which is something I need to work on for the future. I'd like to get a braille display one day for my computer, a decent one that's got like 40 cells or whatever it is, since I've got a braillelite M20, and I just find it doesn't really do the job well when reading stuff on the computer. As for learning how stuff is spelt and punctuation usage, it's possible to do it using a screen reader by moving the cursor letter by letter, but you have to be really disciplined. When I learn vocab for stuff at university, I either write the word down on my braillelite so I can remember how it's spelt, or write it on the computer in a separate document. It'd be so easy for me just to copy and paste stuff in, and I admit I do that sometimes if I'm in the middle of something and need to finish quickly, but if I do that for everything, then I'm the one who's losing out. As for learning new braille codes, I like looking up foreign languages, and although I know French Grade 1, Spanish and Greek and a tiny bit of German, if I decide to learn say Russian or Manderin I probably won't bother to learn the braille, since if I do an academic exam I'll just get the paper electronically if I can. The way I see it is, I won't need braille when working, stuff will get sent to me electronically, or either by post so I can scan it, so what'd be the point of learning a braille code and hardly ever using it. I do agree though that for learning programming or maths, braille is certainly important. As for braille music that is completely pointless and should die. It's ridiculously complicated, and whereas sited people can look at a score whilst playing, blind people can't do that, they have to memorise it, so therefore they may as well learn everything by ear. You kill 2 birds with 1 stone so to speak--not only do you avoid wasting hours learning the music code, you will also develop an amazing ear provided that you have the patience to practice. When I used to have guitar lessons on a regular basis, although I was learning braille music at school as part of my music studies, I never, ever used it for my guitar lessons, there was no point, as I used to record my lessons on tape and play it back later in order to practice.
See you, tara.
I use braille for my math calss, I think its not used as much as before, but its still used for somethings. For books, I like audiobooks, but I don't mind reading them as well. Math, I've always used braille for diagrams and for my worksheets.
I know how to write and read Braille but presently don't use it whatsoever since I can see well enough to read large print and etc with a pocket magnifier.
I was mainly taught Braille because with my Glaumoa the doctors felt that later in life I might eventually lose my vision right now it's stable but things do change, and if that's the case I'd know how use it, which I am quite greatful for.
Braille is still a very useful thing to know. While these days I use the computer or a PDA for most things I do, there're still some things I almost insist on reading in braille. Math, as some people have said. The book should be in braille, and when I wrote my assignments, I did them with a braille note or pac mate with a braille display. I think I might've been a visual learner if I'd been sighted, even though vision doesn't make much sense to me at all. When working in math, at least anything more than your adition/multiplication I almost always have to write down a problem and actually see it in braille before I can complete it.
Next, computer programming or coding: I did without a braile display the first couple programming courses I took. But when I had a braille display later, and could code using that, it made things so much easier.
The third thing would be learning a foreign language. Spellings aren't going to be like you necessarily expect them, nor is the punctuation.
Actually another one that just occured to me: signs like bathroom doors and labels in elevators. I'd prefer not to play Russian roulette with either one if I didn't have to.
I learned to read braille when I was 5 or 6 years old. I don't use it much now, and just the other day, I wondered if I would ever forget it. I found a braille book, picked it up and began reading, perhaps a bit slower at first, but there was something comforting about it. I do use a slate and stylus. It beats dragging out the brailler. I know people who can't read braille or print, and they truly suffer, even if they won't admit it. One guy used to spell things out to me so I'd tell him what it said. One day he wanted to make some brownies for his little girl. He started trying to read the directions, and said, haltingly, "Stir until," and that's when he stopped because he had no idea what the word was. I automatically supplied him with, "Combined?" He said he always thought that word was, "combustion." Not only is it sort of funny, scarey and sad, but well, I don't guess I even need to finish the thought.
Ok, enough of my ramblings.
To the poster who said braille music should die, I must respectfully disagree. Braille music has saved my musical but several times. I was doing recording in a studio once, and laid down a track of really odd chords. I couldn't figure out what I had done well enough to write a bass line to go with it. I took the tape home, and wrote out the bass line. Again, no way I could have memorized it, but when I came back to the studio, I had my music that I could read with one hand, and play with the other. I have a Church job, and don't always have time to memorize the music. I play along with the organist, many times doubling the melody line. I have access to the hymnal both on CD and on line. I'll listen to the hymn and braille the melody line. I think braille music has made me much more musically literate in terms of time signatures and rhythmic values in particular. Back to braille in general, I'm pleased about the proliferation of braille displays over the last few years. Lastly, as a technology evaluator, I'm pleased to see the amount of people who are requesting notetakers with braille displays. It speaks well for the future of braille.
Lou
Hi Lou,
I can definitely see your point of view, and yeah if you want to study music to a high level you have to know the theory and how to read and write it, which is the main reason why I gave up studying it. But yeah I suppose I can see the argument from both sides. I just didn't have the patience to learn something that was complicated and quite frankly was spoiling my enjoyment of studying music.
Tara.
Let me make it clear that I'll never be a fluent braille music reader. What makes matters worse is that depending on the country and the year it was brailled, one must read the music differently. I use it just enough to do what I have to do, and no more. I got pretty good at taking dictation on the slate when I was in college. Oh well, my sanity has always been questionable.
yes!! Yes!!! its needed, how can you play cards, take notes, write private letters and balance books? Okay so you can write on the computer, but I personally think its neat to get a braille letter from someone your dating its their words and their feelings not the darn screen reader reading it. Maybe because I used braille all my life, but it helps with spelling, andand other things. Just my thoughts!
It is really an interesting topic.
Here in the Philippines, only few are using note takers. It is because there are only few to borrow. Braille is really helpful. I preferred to use braille when I am reading notes, textbooks, and of course when solving mathematical problems. I hope despite of advance technology that are available, we still need to use the former one. Because without it, the technologies that are available today will not made.
A research was done and the result stated that almost all blind people who were able to get a job knew how to do Braille. I just read this somewhere. I think it's pretty reasonable because like print, braille is also a form of communication. We have to learn braille because thats what make blind people literate to read, write, and understand. I know that there's already computers and such that reads to those people, but your not always in front of the computer. Learning braille helps you become more effective in adapting yourself in different learning situations. Yeah, if braille does not work for you, there's always books on CD's, but not every thing is in CD format. There's always an advantage and disadvantage in everything.
I haven't read all the posts to this topic, but I just found an instance when I could use Braille for something other than labeling. I am taking a correspondence course in U.S. History from Hadley and elected to receive the materials on cassette rather than Braille because of the amount of space that Braille takes up. But with all the names of various explorers from Europe in the 13th through 16th centuries, which is all the further I have gotten in the course so far, I could sure use some help with spelling. I haven't gotten to my assignment yet, but after listening to the book so far, I find myself wishing the narrator would spell names and places. If my assignment involves having to write essays, I'm sure I will need to use the internet to look up a lot of information just to get the spellings of names in places. If I had gotten the materials in Braille, I wouldn't have to do the extra internet work.
I am a huge Braille advocate, and I feel that Braille is very important, and can still be utilized, even in today's society. I am completely blind, but consider myself a visual learner. I prefer Braille displays over speech, would rather read my books than listen to them, and enjoy braille over most audio anyday. However, sometimes I like to use audio if I want to read something faster than I can by Braille, but, still, I'm a Braille user all the way.
I don't think there are many people reading this topic who can say they wouldn't be delighted to use pen, paper, notebooks, and regular print books, but it's not possible, unless you can read large print. We might not be happy about using braille, but we can't deny that it got the job done for us when we were in school or were in a situation where we needed to see the breakdown of spelling, punctuation, or any other matter involving the breakdown of text. Many people say braille is too bulky, but it's really not bulky anymore. We've got notetakers with braille displays and standalone braille displays that hook up to computers. I could see using the excuse years ago that screen readers made it easier for us to read things, being that you had to know braille in order to write it back then. And there weren't easy means of converting documents from print to braille. But now, the process is seemless. I know the feeling of switching back to braille when you use a computer, and it is slow at first. But now, I switch back and forth from print to braille every day. It takes practice, but using braille and print can be second nature if you work at it. And it can be beneficial to everyone.
Agree 100% with above post.
I love braille. There's no way to be truly literate as a blind person without braille if you can't read print. Granted, there is Jaws, recorders, etc, but there's nothing like being able to write and read for oneself just like the sighted world does.
There's also nothing like reading in bed, either.
So true. Actualy, I just did that last night, I read about 30 pages of this book before I went to sleep. Granted, the book is in 4 volumes, but if its good, I'll read it in braille. If I listen to a book, the narrator has to do a good job at reading, which y I don't like RFBND too much. But reading in bed, is always cool.
lol I havent used braile since grade 9. and even then it was only to write messages to my blind friends at the school for the blind i was
at. I did use to read and write with braile before that however i was not a good speller back then and i not a good spelller now. but with the computer i have
spel check I can use. thats a thing that a manual braler does not hav on it lol. by my way of thinking anyway brail is a thing of the past. computers note takers laptops and recording devices are the things of the future
Ignore redstar
This has already been mentioned, but what if your computer or electronic device goes down? Then what r ya gonna do?
Agree completely with the last post. One needs to be proficient in spelling and know how to correct things if spell check is not working.
I absolutely love Braille. I use a Braille display and would choose to read a Brailel book over listening to an audio book. I think it's important to be literate (and literacy doesn't come from listening to audio). I don't see anything wrong with using spell check, but I don't think it's something we should rely on. It's sad when you see a blind person that doesn't even know how to spell "Braille."
Not to mention propper names in the news, the ability to read mathematical formulas, the abilityto create labels, notes, hard copy recipes, need I go on? You won't see a sighted person give up the pencil and pen or paper.
Lou
Since I am going into college, I have to learn braille music. I only know a little bit. I kind of agree with Lou and Tara. It's hard to process two things at once in your head, I'd rather just memorize it. But I guess college students who are going to be music majors have to learn to read music anyways, if they're blind or sighted. *sigh* I don't know what to think. I have friends who know braille music and use it a lot and some who just don't and say, "Fuck braille music! I'd rather learn it by ear!".
Macy
I grew up in the years before the internet and all this new technology and braille was all we had to work with and black marker since I have some sight. Unfortunately, braille is a dying art since most kids now days aren't even being taught the basic number or alphbet systems because all they need is a speech program or recorder of some kind to get all the information they need for classes, reading books, doing research, and more. There are kids today that have no idea what to do without a computer or cell phone that they can carry around and this is sad. People don't actually read anything anymore. Most blind kids don't even own a brailler to write anymore because they can use the computer or cell phone to communicate with others and this too is sad.
I like braille and always will. I like reading in braille, even though for one book it does take several volumes, but then so did my textbooks for high school and coollege. I comprehend things better if I read them myself instead of listening to a recording. Well, except math because its so visual and that I did with black marker. I know why braille is disappearing because of the cost of reproduction, the space needed to store braille volumes, and the total worldwide influence of computer and mobile technology.
As for the slate and stylus that was refered to in the first post? Well, a full-sized brailler was rather heavy and cumbersome to carry to class so I learnt to use that easy-to-carry note taking device many years ago. Its portable, quick, easy to use, and if you're good, you can punch braille almost as fast as you can type it on a regular brailler, something you need to do to keep up with notes in class.
It's unfortunate and I see braille eventually being phased out, but I hope it doesn't happen to soon.
i don'tsee braille being phased out, not as long as note takers have braille displays. those are life savers especially when you want to be discrete about what you're reading.
From a "sighted" perspective, I hope that this language does NOT die out... I think it's a very useful and important means of communication.
I am seeing more and more braille (no pun intended) on the packaging of every day things. I noticed the start of this trend about 3½ years ago, when I was working in a hospital pharmacy in the Caribbean.... some of the packaging that the medications come in have Grade 1 embossed on them... nothing very fancy or very distinct (i.e. it's not been done by a brailler or a braille embosser) but embossed enough to be felt and seen... I was very pleased to see this and with my then limited-to-grade-one braille knowledge, I could sound out the letters on the box and figure out what it said.
I also believe that Braille is becoming more mainstream... just the other day, I was at my local drug store and noticed that Band-Aid brand bandages have started to emboss the boxes of their products with the words "Band-Aid" in Grade 1. I was amazed and pleased to see this as well.
I hope that other companies follow suit.
Honestly, I only use brail for textbooks, signs (whenever there are actually signs in brail), menus and such, but I think it's always good to keep reading it every now and again, cause you never know, you might need your brail skills if you have any, in the future... Now as a regular book reading medium, I'd much rather use speach. After all, as said in post one, brail, especially in the levil of books I read now, is a bit big and bulky...
asking if braille is out of date is like asking if writing is out of date, or books.
I don't always want to use a screen reader or an audiobook to read what I want to. I can use the slate, so I often use it to write on peoples christmas cards, or keep numbers in my addressbook.
Every child should learn braille, because if they don't see the letters written down, and learn to know them and recognise them, they will have spelling issues when they are older.
Not only that, but kids are having more and more literacy issues these days, and this is put down to the rise in availability of technology.
Kids just aren't learning how to read properly anymore.
Braille gives us the opportunity to be like the sighted people in the world with their books and to go off to a quiet place with your book and read peacefully without the need for a reader or any talking objects.
Braille also gives us the opportunity to be closer to our classmates. If we have braille in the class, we're not the odd one out with the computer and we can give the teacher and our friends our full attention.
You'll still get the looks like why is he or she reading with their fingers, but I do agree with what SwissGriff said.
in my experience, people in school are more likely to point out the computer rather than the braille.
the bestof both worlds there, technology and braille is the note taker as i've said. you can have lots and lots of books on one card, easily available for the reading, and with the ability to disable speech on those, it's quite handy. I for one will not leave my brailleNote behind now, it hold my whole reading libray, not to mention it has my address book, my planner, and my email handy, all controllable by braille.
Ironically, based on how you all talk this seems strange.
I get the chance to read more Braille now, wih the Internet and a PAC Mate or PM Braille display, than I ever used to. Sure all I had was Braille, but before the Internet I couldn't read the newspaper, could only read what the great white masters deigned to deem worthy of brailling - electronics materials being pretty low on the list. I read more Braille now *with technology* than I ever could get before. Because I can read online data.
I fail to see how the two can possibly be either-or.
Hello Everyone,
I am rarely this emphatic about a topic as this one. I therefore without a slightest doubt, think Braille will never die out, even if new technologies have/will come about!
Now although I'm from the UK, again there was a third grade of Braille, but it has never got established, and so I have never been taught it, as very few books are written in it.
I can pick up other codes very well too, even of the same language. In fact, the story that comes to mind, was when a couple of years ago, I skied in the US, and I was handed a menu, and apart from the code for brackets (which I guessed) and one other minor thing, I read it fine, even if I needed some sighted guidance, to choose otherwise I'd b een there at midnight!
I know someone in the UK, (who will remain nameless), who is a few years older than myself, (I'm nearly 27), who despite being totally blind, never got on with Braille, and is very happy (he says) to use just technology, but, I do feel that is very sad, and I don't know about the USA, (but think it was mentioned earlier by a previous poster), but in the UK, Braille is taught less and less, so I count myself very lucky!
I certainly prefer Braille still, just reading these posts, I nearly fell asleep, as, I study everything to an academic standard! Yes, I am a confident JAWS user, and have a Pacmate Omni!
Due to cost, I have to use my 40 Cell, (just previously mentioned) Pac Mate Omni Braille Display, which is exellent, but will and wish one day, to switch to to using with my PC and laptop, a traditional Braille Display when I can afford to do so!
Braille is harder to learn, the older a blind person is when they learn. At a local Society for the blind in the UK, I was trying to teach someone Braille, in their 50s, and people there were learning well, quite a bit older than that, and it was very moving, as they were/(and I'm sure still are) battling to learn the code, sometimes the Grade 1 (in the UK) and others Grade 2, sadly, my pupil I was teaching, and some health issues, and I learnt soon after I couldn't keep it up, he had passed away sadly a couple of years ago!
I still prefer carrying Braille for most things, though I do get in the UK, Talking Newpapers and Etext ones to read on my computer, I've been slack recently, so must start using my subscription again! I am not great at Braille Music, partly, as, I've never been over talented at music, feel especially bad, as my teacher I did have, passed away last year! And tactile, I've always struggled with, I never learnt Braille at mainstream, which, I attended, till 8, but then as if a mirracle, I learnt Braille very quickly, within a year I recall! I'd cause controvacy by my ext statement, but (and I wonder if the majority of you from America have heard of this), but, there has been a plan in the English-speaking countries, to have a Unified English Braille (UEB) code), and I believe America wasn't keen on this, nor was the UK either, but a rarity in the UK, I have been converted to it, that, a unified English Braille code makes sense! but, away from controvacy now! LOL
Also I do use DAISY (Digital Accessible Information System) and get talking books from the RNIB (Royal Institute of Blind People), but traditionally, I actally loathed tapes, couldn't take in info at all, and I do use digital books, and computer ebooks etc, but still Braille for me deffinately Number 1!is
To finish I'll mention some stats (from the UK) and about the circumstances that led me to learn Braille!
I be interested in the situation in America, but in the UK, only (at maximum, some times 4 or 4/2) 5 per cent of books, are in any accessible format! I mentioned very few in the UK too learn Braiile now, out of the Blind population in the UK, (sorry for the terminology), but, only 1 in 10 now know Braille!
Well think that's my stats, I'll just say about myself, I do actally have a tiny bit of vision, but, print reading is very slow, so, since 8 years of age, I have been a Braille Reader, and despite Computers (I use JAWS) and DAISY, and I have a Victor Reader (which I enjoy), I am a Braille Reader first! My level of vision is such, (and sorry, can't translate it into the American system) that, I am on the Blidn Register in the UK, but, I add the word "Technically", due to my little vision in my right eye, I had damage to the optic nerve, and it resulted in "light and dark" in the left! Sighted people, thought I had partial sight, or even were sighted, confusing I do now wear glasses, as I'm slighted shorted sighted, but that's not related to this thread!
So to sum up, I think Braille should not and I'd prepare to say, will not die out despite modern advancements in technology, my local Society dared to say it would a few years ago, (they've thankfully changed their mind since), as I certainly wouldn't want to read Braille on a computer in bed, in a way, I'd find that much heavier, and dispite the facts displays have got their place, the original Braille certainly was/is/will always be (in my humble opinion) the very best! :)
Best wishes one & all,
Timothy Bamber AKA Timber here on the Zone!
full stops please. What's up with the exclamation marks and commas? I even got that through with NVDA. at any rate, I often sweat alot in my hands. So when I'd try to use them to read the braille on my BrailleNote and/or Braille Lite, I'd actually get electric shocks from them. Papers or even terry cloth towels don't work when my hands get that bad. As for books, the regular paper ones used to feel nasty to the touch when my hands were wet. I absolutely adored thurmaform and would go nuts in high school when I'd get a book made with it. Thankfully, my sweating is alot less now but it's still there at times, so I highly doubt a braille display is in my future.
Hello All,
I have never been keen on fermoform, my hands get stuck. My hands are normally warm, but I got a book recently, and the pages starting melting, and I thought what's going on here? And it is from the main Christian organisation for the Blind in the UK, Torch Trust, well, I say "main", there are not many, specifically Christian ones in the UK, can get Braille Christian books (like hymn books from the RNIB [Royal National Institute of Blind People])!
Regards to All,
Timothy Bamber AKA Timber on The Zone,
My views on braille have truly changed since starting this topic back in 2007. I've learned that not only is braille not obsolete but it's also necessary if we, as a blind community, wish to learn to write properly. As much as I adore proper diction and grammar, I'm constantly making spelling mistakes. I believe that this is due to the fact that I read very little and use the computer and tapes alot. Granted, braille can contribute to misspellings, due to contractions, but these can be remedied by looking up the words and using both forms of writing in order to enhance memorisation. I've actually reintroduced braille into my life with the slate and stylus. While learning how to use it provided a fun experience, it also stressed to me how important braille is today. I can take it with me anywhere, don't need to worry about batteries or electricity to power my writing device, can use throwaway materials in writing and can have immediate access to things in hard copy. So while I still contend that, for truly large works, it's better to use an audio method, braille does have it's place in 2010 and beyond.
I was actually reminded of this thread by an article that I found here. It opened my eyes to the terrible fact of how many blind people in the Western world are now no longer taught how to read and write in braille and also provided the flip side to the coin. That is, those people who truly do believe that it's obsolete.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Braille-t.html?pagewanted=1
I've reintroduced braill
Has anyone ever thought to teach a sighted person Braille? I did it three times to my brother, and he lost the paper all three times (we were only like six then). Anyway, I feel braille s definitelyi note obseleat becuase if pelpoe dno't laern to reed briale than thay wil suond like this. I also find that a lot of people on the zone do this. I thought of having some sort of grammar test for points (I'd so like to give some unnamed people one), but there's obviously no way to do it. If only the admins would make it mandatory to take one and pass within the next week otherwise your account would be deleted. Now that'd be really good.
Yeah I tought a sighted girl in high school Braille. It was fun because we would write notes to each other on my Braille Lite during class. I really haven't used Braille anymore since I've been out of school though.
I taught Mom's partner braille and she learned Grade I and II. I'm not sure how much she'd remember now but it was interesting. Mostly, she did the work herself, probably for my benefit. I was extremely young at the time, maybe six or seven. I love the idea of a grammar test! Some of the writing that I've seen on the internet, in general, is so horrible that I cringe when I read it.
Oh, and I might add, this is from sighted as well as blind people. Apparently, everyone else is losing the ability to spell as well!
#Tiffanitsa
I like to read and I feel personally for me, Braille is the best way of doing this. I know that there are many screenreaders and speech enabled devices available, but I find learning easier when i can physically read on my own. I tend to pick-up a lot more detail and I find that it helps with spelling & grammer.
This incident occured early this year. Please see the following news article.
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Sneak-thief-grabs-blind-student39s.6118600.jp
More than anything I wanted my Braille display back. I have had no help in the months since the theft and was using a slate and stykus for everything until recently. Currently have a Unimanual Perkins. The best device for me at the moment would probably be the BraillePen 12. It is versatile and connects to mobile phone, computers with Bluetooth etc.
http://www.braillepen.com/
I tried to campaign for sponsership to prevent me from losing my studies via Gumtree (UK based FREE Ad service) unfortunatley no-one came forward. I am not looking forward to next year.
Why would you lose your studies? Do you not qualify for a braille notetaker, since you're in school? Have you tried contacting an agency for the blind? I actually learned Greek entirely with the computer, though I took the time to write out everything so that I would not only be listening to the lesson via the audio and my creenreader reading the page but also learn how to properly spell things etc. I plan on doing the same thing with my next course, which is more advanced. Still, as I've said, I would love to learn the Greek braille code, as it could really come in handy if I wanted to write notes to myself or have something transcribed.
Due to the theft and not being covered by the coach comapanys insurance. I am in Scotland and they will not help with what was stolen. I speak several languages Quecha, Spanish, English and Hindi.
Most of my text books were in digital braille format which made life somewhat more complicated.But the amount of coursework I am having to attempt to go through now has increased considerably. Not only do I have to catch up with what was lost. But I also have to attempt to struggle with a CCTV magnifier and a physical copy of the book. THis causes migraine. I cannot sustain studies in this way.
Why not just get a scanner, scan the book and use speech software? That way, you won't have to get headaches trying to read the book.
Scanners aren't that much and there are mainstream packages which are way cheaper than the ones made for the blind. Even if you scan it with the built-in software and save the work as an image (jpg, bmp etc.) you can e-mail it to convert@robobraille.org and get a txt, rtf, doc or even braille or audio copy of it back, all for free.
Wow, I didn't read all 77 posts so I'll probably repeat what's already been said but this is kind of my soap box so wind me up and watch me go.
I'll give up braille when the sighted give up print. The end!
Like others have said, it's better for reenforcing the spellings of words, labeling, etc. Oh yeah, and I've noticed a definite decrease in my propper usage of punctuation since becoming a mostly audio user.
I rarely read braille for fiction however I do have our Bible in braille because sometimes I just want to quickly look something up. For fiction and most other long reading, I use audio; however, for cookbooks, I'd rather have braille so I usually end up brailling my own copies of recipe collections.
I would love to have a braille display for things like reading to my son, editing documents, etc.
A few years from now, the question will be asked, "Why put up Braille signs and have Braille menus if the blind can't read them anyway?" I've heard so much about how Braille should die because people have gone to computers now, but isn't there anything at all to be said for knowing how to read? I think that some people who learned Braille early on and then abandoned it forget about how Braille helped them to understand sentence structure, punctuation placement and the likes. I honestly can't imagine a world without Braille. Also, people who don't learn to read might know how to spell somewhat, but a lot of them get since and sense mixed up. There and their, and the most horrible thing of all... Than and then. Those don't even sound the same, heaven help us all!
Whenever I picture a word in my mind, it's always in braille. I do it so much that it's subconscious, but yes, now that I think about it, I'm always invisioning words in braille when I write or listen to something being read.
Unfortunately a lot of my studies are done in the field so being able to access remote databases etc. Is no longer practical .
I will explain more in the morning it's nearly 1am here.
I, too, visualize in braille. And on brailled tests (especially that have some spelling component), braille can help me. When I see something strange (e.g. spelled wrong), my brain goes "Ding. Alarm. Misspelling alert." I seem to have some sort of database of braille word shapes, and when something's not there, an error message pops up...Figuratively, of course, but you get it.
hi,
I must admit that I've not used braille in so so long! I've forgotten most of my grade 2 lol. I am a linguist and take everything in electronically...so I don't necessarily hold with the mantra that braille and structure are complementary. If you want to learn something, you learn it.
With regard to my post above about struggling with studies due to the theft of my notetaker. Yes I can scan the books and have thenm read out, I have tried this it works to a certain degree.
However some of the subjects I am studying include complex equations (music theory) and these never seem to parse correctly when read from a scanned book.
The screenreader is unable to tell that it is reading equations and it gets very messy! Also for music it is just not possible. If I scan a true music score it is very garbled when read out by a computer. Without Braille reading music for me is impossible nearly. I can play by ear but if I am asked to learn a newly composed piece this is somewhat harder.
Also finding things difficult with regard to software programming, checking a line of code can get interesting. I don't know how to describe it but I find this much easier if I can physically read what I have just written.
So as you can imagine my studies in both of the above areas are severely impaired by using audio only. Braille is a great tool and should continue to be in use for many years.
I also teach Braille on a voluntary basis and am surprised by how few visually impaired people have taken the time to learn.
I think that Braille and speech should compliment each other and be used side by side.
Azzabat
It might help you to look on Ebay for a braille embosser. Some of them, especially the older kind, are extremely cheap. They also might have older versions of braille translation software and I know that a few are free and/or relatively cheap. I've never seen a decently-priced braille display on there but they may have one. Good luck with everything.
Check blindbargains too, they might have one.
This has come up with my son's "Vision teacher" from time to time. The worst parts of all this would seem to be the trend towards Braille and technology being an either/or thing, and the trend towards teachers presuming that, since Braille is ostensibly complex and difficult for them to learn, and they can see, how terribly difficult it must be for those poor, poor blind children. In the first instance, the Kindle, the Nook, the iPhone, the PC, the iPad and the Macintosh have not outmoded the printed word, merely provided another medium on which to read it. Similarly, casting aside the prohibitive cost for Braille displays—difficult though that is—the iPad, for example, is just another way to carry scads of books without breaking your back.
In the second case—Japanese characters are complex and difficult to learn ... if you're learning them later in life. By these people's logic, for God's sake, throw out Japanese characters! They're too complex!
Also: @Eleni: I totally thought I was the only person that saw words in Braille in their mind's eye.
Also also: "Vision teacher"? What the deuce is up with that? No matter how resourceful they may be, I'm guessin' their odds of teaching my son how to see have established permanent residence around zero.
I think it is a shame that braille literacy is dropping. It's such a shame.
Braille will always have it's place in my life, and I love technology, but for somethings I like braille too.
You said it!
I would say yes, braille is still important. Technology & audio are always good, but why limit your options when it comes to learning?
Well said.
Yep, Ebay is the absolute best place to get braille embossers. I got one for $250 plus shipping. Granted, it's a Versapoint BP1 probably from the late 1980s, but ya know what? That bad boy will be embossing braille long after I'm dead and gone. lol It can't handle large files but that's ok. I got a usb to parelel cable and it works just great. I think that was probably my finest ebay purchase ever. lol For those of us without a Rehab agency buying our every gadget, ebay has been a real blessing.
I have one of those blazie brail imbosers and have no clue what to do with it as it is 10 years old now and I don't need the thing.
What does it's age have to do with it? So long as it works, it can still be used. I have mine sitting on the desk and plugged into my desktop. Embossers are truly wonderful things for many reasons, and the Blazer in particular, since it can serve as both an embosser and a synthesizer and can do graphics. That, and it's cheap and relatively light weight and quiet.
I have a Perkins but have never bought an embosser. I guess that's more likely to be owned by those young enough to have got them from the schools.
Eleni, the interface is probably the key: Yes, you can buy USB to parallel or serial converters but a ten-year-old proprietary device may not have up-to-date drivers adequate for a modern operating system, so that may be why. Plus, one needs to purchase a translator to make the hardware work, I imagine.
In the case of the Blazer, it's actually hooked up to the built-in parallel port on my XP machine, not the DOS one. I also found it myself for under $500 on Ebay, so as I said, the prices really have gone down. Torrents are of great help, but barring that, there are only a few free options for translation software that come to mind. Most others are naturally very expensive, so you certainly have a point there.
Braille must live on and be promoted. So many blind people have horrendous spelling these days because they read almost exclusively through screen readers.
Well sometimes the braille contractions lead to poor spelling. lol.
margorp is right about contracted braille causing people to be horrible spellers. still, though, being a bad speller isn't only related to blindness.
The last poster said it well.
I disagree about Braille contractions making ppl poor spellers. If your using contractions, you should know what letters they represent.
I would think of not learning Braille as a sort of sensory deprivation...not using the sense of touch to learn numbers & letters & analyze based on that sense, and that seems a shame. Audio is nice, but IMO reading for the sighted & Braille for the blind are still musts.
ppl? What? And here you are telling us that contractions don't do anything to spelling.
I see 'ppl' all over the place on Facebook, it's one of their texting words, the young fools whose first scribbles in kindergarten were lmfao and rotflmao.
The point here is really moot anyway: Any institute conducting any form of research it called technological would attempt what MIT is doing with the $12 computer for Africans, only this would be for Braille output: something that could at least output Braille using some sort of membrane technology.
Frankly, everyone's expected, blind sighted or 3-legged frog, to use technology. Braille just needs to be part of that technology. Until it's priced and positioned correctly, this point is entirely academic, like the "let's-break-down-the-digital-divide-in-the-third-world" dissertations of the 1990s which resulted in nothing.
Now mobile devices are cheaper and versions are deployed, and the divide is getting broken, not by idealists but by solutions, as usual.
What you have now far far exceeds the horrible tapes of the past. You can, even with speech, check how something is spelled. I do it on my iPod now, which for me is a speech-only device since I've not got over $1300 to spend on a display.
I could never do that with tapes, and although I know how to spell reasonably well with the minor turning around of letters as an exception, I could never get an accurate representation of format / spelling off a tape.
Further, try looking at tables in a Braiulle book. On the computer with a Braille display, you can see things the way the rest of the world does.
This isn't an argument pro-Braille anti-technology, but anyone with any sense would argue for a seamless integration of both.
Meanwhile, continue to blame the young fool texting on his/her/its cell phone while driving, and call the attrocious spelling a blind thing ... I see Facebookers turning around their and there, maybe even the occasional 'they're' thrown in for good measure.
Note well what's happening in the third world now with mobile devices, versus how much got done when numbnut idealists sat around and started miniature fires between their hands by rubbing and wringing them so hard decrying how we 'must break the digital divide in the third world'. Valid claims, but wrong place to look for anything at all resembling a solution.
Well put. Let's still use braille, however.
if not reading braille makes you a bad speller then how do you explain sighted people who read print day to day, I mean it's everywhere but still write terribly! I know people who read books like nobodys business, but when they have to write a message or email it looks like a third grader.
Poor education maybe? Parents that didn't value checing their kid(s)' homework to make sure it was presentable, or maybe weren't that educated themselves? One of my former trainees was a history buff who was looking over the history paper of a friend's daughter he was tutoring. It was written no more grammatically correct than an instant message to a friend, & when he pointed this out to her, she said the Catholic high school her father was paying out of pocket for didn't require homework to be turned in grammatically correct. He told the girl's father, "Dude stop wasting your money & send her to the neighborhood public school since this one doesn't have any standards."
It's not just the parents, the districts share the blame.
no I think it's necessary and helpful too, should we depend on it? no, but should we use it, know it, and charish it? absolutely. It's good to read to not just listen or have a screen reader. It's useful in quiet places, and it's useful to keep practicing every day so you can actually read the braille signage and braille menus and what not. I also find it immensely helpful in terms of writing and editing my work I can scrutinize a piece better by reading then by listening.
Well I think that braille is surely dying, but my gosh I don't want it to! I mean so many blindie companies say they are for braille and such complete crap! I mean how can you freaking be for braille when you have it priced at thousands of dollars? And sure, the braille pen 12 or whatever is 900, but gosh that's still too much! How much does a computer monitor cost? Well that's how much a braille display should be! And yes, it does take a lot to make something like that, but look at it this way! In the 80's, it probably costed 10 times more! So, they should be able to just get off their lazy butts and research more, think more, and soon enough we'll have a $100 braille display. Why don't they then? I have no idea, other than they just want to make big bucks to keep their corrupt selves still in business. Yes braille is amazing, but it sure ain't cheap!
they charge that much because they don't sell a lot of them. Thus, they have to make up the cost of making them by making them expensive.
I know a lot of people who say they hate braille, but then will go and get a braille display. That makes no sense to me, a braille display is still braille. The system is called braille, not the books. Unless, of course, you are reading a book called braille.
I personally adore braille. I listen to audio books too, but I like giving my own voices to characters. I don't like having them decided for me. Its easier for me to immerse myself in a story if I'm the one reading it.
Also, I like to put on headphones, crank my music up as loud as I can stand, and then read. You just can't do that with an audio book. With that, you almost have to decide if you want to listen to the book, or the music. I don't like that.
The sad truth is, Braille was never cheap. Before there was technology, it was always very very expensive to produce Braille materials, and you always got the worst or the most backward version. This is not a fight that began with technology. In the 70s even, they were trying to pawn off the use of TAPES ... imagine trying to do math off a math book ON TAPE! You would have to Braille it all out and then do it, but they did it on tape because it's cheaper.
I have high hopes for haptics as a method on a flat surface to do Braille. The real problem is that the parts used to make displays are not interchangeable with other devices, so the parts are expensive before the companies who make displays ever get the parts, then you have to work up from there. I actually do not know the specifics on profit margins for these things, but I can tell you that it's highly conceivable they're not marking it up just to make some sort of obscene profit. Your Samsung tablets and your iPads probably earn more profit per device than a Braille display does, simply because the parts are to some extent interchangeable.
But technology did not kill Braille, and I would rather be hung and strangled slowly with piano wire than to go back to a time when we were expected to gratefully consume what meager content there was, always out of date, always behind.
I will never forget the first time using a computer I read a local publication at the same time as my sighted peers. But make no mistake: Braille has always been very very expensive. Only now, if you pay a couple thousand, you get a device rather than just a single set of soon-to-be-outdated reference volumes.
nope, sorry guys. I do not use braille and never have since I was about 10, some 13 years ago. And before the accusations come in, I have completed an undergrad and postgrad education and am on the job now full time, with no use of braille, doing law and legal work. I have no time for it. If the maths people or programers use it, that's great and I can't comment on what is or is not needed in those fields, but it is not a part of my life and considering I've forgotten about half my grade 2, it will probably never be. That does not bother me in the slightest.
MJ
There is no denying that lack of Braille literacy does affect some blind people's spelling. How else do you explain an adult writing offle instead of awful? I have seen that, by the way. If one grows up only hearing synthesized speech and never actually reading Braille, then naturally it probably will have consequences on the person's level of literacy.
I appreciate my Braille, but can respect people who don't use it or deliberately have not.
I can explain the misspellings: It's not blindness, it's these young lfao-textin fools! That's what it is. Got nieces who do it, and they can see. Got friends of the nieces who do it, and they can see.
Listening to my daughter and her friends talk about it, they claim textspeak is responsible for all the misspelling. They actually had a semi-intelligent conversation with me saying these others weren't just little fools as I call 'em, but less literate. The daughter and her friends all text a mile a minute, but don't use that textspeak. I see their and there, then and than, it's and its, all sorts of misprints online especially on Facebook, and none of the Facebookin' fools are blind. Can't say anything about the other online content, you wouldn't know.
Get people to use Braille if you want, hell I enjoy having access to it and would not wish to program or proofread without it. However, if you tell people blindness with no Braille makes people misspell, and then they go look at what their kids / grandkids / nieces and nephews post online, or God forbid try and read some of their texts, you will find yourself losing credibility. It's generational I think. Look, since you have Braille, at all the ridiculous excuses for sentence structure by the kids, no caps, no punctuation.
I will admit to you, checking spelling and things with speech is laborious. But all readers have spell word and similar commands so it's not like listening to a Audiobook and getting frustrated with it because you don't know how something is written out.
You need to find a new argument, since we got a generation of fools that can't write and can't spell. And I'm sure you can come up with a argument that works: Braille is as useful for us as print is for sighted people. And I can just look at a line rather than go blank blank blank space space space over it with the reader that sounds like a robotic nag half the time.
Yes of corse braille is vary inportend. i use it every day. I don't mind it. i have paper. braille in my room. I also use a note taker. too. but braille is cool. books.
i agree that braille is very useful for certain things: for example, I would much rather listen to audio books than read them in braille. but, I recently traded in my mPower for the APH refresh a braille display to pair with my iPhone. It is very neat and convenient and works great with the phone for typing text messages, emails, short notes, appointments, etc. in braille. some of the iPhone gestures are also easier via the braille display so I'm really satisfied with it.
offle? like adverbifyng off? hahaha! wow?
and, devin, if it's cheaper, where shall the companies get the money for all their supply?
And, I am taking a psych stats course right now, I would die if I wasn't using some sort of braille for it. Not that I am not already dying of frustration and boredom.
I use braille every day. for all sorts of things. I think that braille is still needed today. i'm thankful for braille. and i'm also thankful for my braille teacher that made me learn it when i was at the California school for the blind. it comes in handy. etc.
After reading these posts, I think netspeak does far more to destroy language than braille ever could, and this is even more true for Greek! I can't even begin to explain how much I despise it! Yes, if we didn't use computers, we would have to remember how to spell words, instead of writing contractions. But I cringe when I read how some of these people write today, and most are native English writers! squidwardqtentacles, that's disgusting about the Catholic school. How on Earth could any school not require proper grammar!
Certainly, you can't learn to spell properly with tapes. But speech has been around for a few decades now, so I could learn to spell something just as easily in DOS as in Windows. It's not a new concept. As for format and whatnot, I must admit, I've never really been curious or needed to know about the layout of a page. Graphs and tables in school, and the occasional one or two online, are the exception. I've never had problems reading them in braille. But after reading the review of the Mastertouch, it does make sense, if you require such a thing, to be able to read them in realtime and touch any part of the screen or a device to get an idea of where things are located on the page.
Dagne, you brought up a very interesting point. I will be 29 on 1 December, and have been a braille reader since I was six. I hardly ever have the opportunity to read things in braille these days. But I can't say that I've ever needed to practise out of fear of forgetting how to do so. Have any of you faced this challenge? SilverLightning, I've never heard of someone who said he/she hated braille who then bought a braille display! That made me laugh!
LeoGuardian, being that I was born in 1983, and started using Windows computers in about 1996, I can't really relate to your experiences with getting things that were out-of-date. When I want to look something, I just go online and do it. As far as books, though, I've never felt the need to keep up with anyone sighted. When I wread a book, I do so for pleasure, not to compete. That said, I definitely know what it feels like to wait for a recording of the next volume of a series to be made, and that can be frustrating. So in a way, I can understand your point.
Tiff, regarding practicing every day, for me, the answer is no. Again, that's just me. That's in respect to reading though. I had the opportunity to braille something for someone by hand the other day and was surprised at some of the contractions that I read all the time but I had to stop and think about what they were to braille them. Strange, huh?
Very! *smile* I can't say I've ever had that problem. But I can see how working with a slate and stylus can throw someone off, especially if he/she hasn't done it in awhile. That's quite different from using a Perkins or other standard brailler.
I think most big chain resturaunts should have braille menus. and yes, if i ever needed a braille note taker i'd use in an instant. still have braille lite 2000 but no charg cord or at least don't remember where i put it. pitty it still works. otherwise. 12 years later.
I agree about the braille menus. I love it when restaurants have those! As for the Braille Lite 2000, mine completely stopped working, even when plugged in! I can't even get it to turn on!
It's a complicated issue. It's partly personal preference, and partly pragmatic. I think that Braille contributes to overall literacy. There's no substitute for noting the structure of a sentence and punctuation placement. I actually had smart VI teachers who taught me to type on a typewriter when I was in fourth grade. This enabled me to learn to spell well. I couldn't imagine writing complicated material without having learned the rudiments of grammar and punctuation. In junior high in the late 70s, I took a French class, and didn't receive my textbook for three months. I had no idea how to spell the french words. In high school I had an algebra book on tape, and had no real understanding for months how an equation was laid out. I think that if it's at all possible, learning Braille has many positives. As for technology, I download electronic Braille and read on my Braille Lite 40 and iPod using my Focus. The decreased use of Braille parallels a decreased use of longhand writing by the sighted, too. Kids are growing up not using writing skills anymore. I think it's possible to use technology to read and write, and also to read and write Braille.
I've used braille and speech all my life but eventually I'll have to depend entirely on braille, as my hearing is going away. I don't have a display at the moment but I really want some kind of portable device so I can physically read books and magazines anywhere. I miss being able to read in bed.
If displas can continue to get cheaper, now the argument would not be one anymore. After all, we now have Kindle accessible with speech and Braille on the iPhone and I'm guessing probably Android also? Anyway this is a recent development so we can read books on all major platforms: Kindle, Nook and iBooks.
Then short writing in texting and instant messaging is also the cause of psighted and blind people being poor spellers? I don't think so. If you remember the letters of the contractions in braille, then you can be a good speller as well. Is sending paper mail needed inspite the e-mail system and payments via technology? yes. Are writing tools needed? Yes. Are text books, and libraries still needed today? Yes. Is braille still needed today? Well, Of course!
I think Braille is still needed today, but not in the same way. I admit, for instance, I use my Victor a lot more since I got it as having 250 books on one itty-bitty SD card is far less bulky than having 250 Braille books. But I want a Braille display, so since I'm working, earning and saving, guess what? I'm gunna get one because I said so.
But as for contracted Braille decreasing one's ability to spell, I'm not buying it. If you've started to use Braille at the age of six and were mainstreamed, as I was, eventually either you or those who are teaching you realize you've got to learn to type. If you become proficient at typing, you then become proficient at spelling unless, of course, you spend your hours texting and using short-hand and not bothering to type full words or sentences. Must be such an odiously complicated thing to do these days is the only explanation I have for so many, blind or sighted, not doing it. But I love to sit quietly somewhere and read a Braille book without all the constant chatter you get from the world at large. I just don't like the bulk.
I think braille is still needed today. However I feel that it is fading into anccint history. I find it a bit sad...
braille does not have to still be bulky, as it once was. nowadays, braille displays, and the state library for the blind's web braille service, make it possible for braille useage where bulkiness isn't even a factor.
I definitely think that Braille is still needed today. It would be like taking print away from the sighted. Although, honestly, it may come to that eventually. Kids have laptops and IPads in schools at younger and younger ages, and I firmly disagree with that as well. Young children aren't always responsible enough to handle expensive pieces of technology, and the overwhelming amount of information that comes with them. This doesn't have much to do with Braille, but I'll tell the story anyway. A friend of mine was recently telling me that he has a little cousin who is, I believe, 5 years old. He had one of those tablets that are specifically designed for kids. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. He took it with him on a family outing. While they were all riding a train, he remained fully engrossed in whatever he was doing on this tablet. So, when they all got off, his mom asked him what he thought of the ride, and he literally said, "we were on a train?" Not only is that a case of piss-poor parenting, because they easily could have not allowed him to take the tablet with him, but a sad representation of how completely dependent on technology we as a society are becoming.
Anyway, my point in telling that story is that it's not just the blind who are being shortchanged. How long will it be before the tablet, smart phone, computer, etc. completely take over in the standard classroom? When I was in elementary school, and keep in mind this was in the 90's, we had computers in the classroom, but they were used for this standardized math testing that we had to take every 2 weeks or so. It would track our progress. Thus, I thought computers were boring until I learned about Jaws when I was about 9 or so. The computers they had were Macs, I'm not sure of the exact model, since they weren't accessible back then. My point is, in the mid 90's, people weren't obsessed with computers, at least not anyone that I knew. Despite the fact that the internet was growing exponentially during that time, no kids I knew went through withdrawal because they were away from a computer, and they all spent dedicated amounts of time learning cursive each day. We had a Windows 95 computer at my house at that time, but it didn't have Jaws, and it didn't have internet, either. That came a few years later.
So, yes, Braille and print are the keys to true literacy. We shouldn't ever underestimate what they can teach us, whether blind or sighted.
Ah but one must ask if technology really is taking over and replacing braille.
It's interesting to me that five-year-olds are already reading by the time they reach Kindergarten. Unless you were a genius, none of my generation was reading at that age back in 1970. But then, that was a vastly different world in many ways. Something's lost, and something's gained.
No, the same way print is really not needed anymore. We must face it, print and braille media is dying. Plus who wants to carry pounds and pounds of heavy books around all day?
print is dying? that's just as ridiculous as people saying braille is dying. what a crock.
Anyone who thinks that print is dying is absolutely ridiculous. Even with all of the new tablets, smart phones and the like that are being rolled out by the millions now, print is still a must-read. The menus at your local restaurants are in print, and are generally a must-read if you actually care about what you're ordering. The labels on all of the various groceries you have to buy are a must-read especially if you have allergies or are on a specific kind of diet, or even if you just want to know just what the heck you're buying. To assume that print or braille are dying when there are so many things out there that still have them, and when there are so many companies mass-producing braille displays, tablets or other devices all requiring all of the above is extremely narrow-sighted. Even if you yourself don't read print, the OCR scanner on your computer or smart device is reading print for you. The person reading the menu to you at a restaurant is reading print for you. Every single icon on your smart device is labeled in print and believe it or not, a majority of smart device users don't actually use voice over or any programs similar to it.
So, it is not braille or print that is on it's way out, but literacy. Is it all do to laziness?
I'd concur on that, and I'd also argue critical thinking at times.
My friend got laid off recently because the newspaper is no longer being read in print. So print isn't dying? I'd think not.
It might seem that newspapers are dying, perhaps, but everything we do online thus far involves print, screenreaders and Braille displays aside. Actually, even a Braille display hooked up to a laptop ultimately involves the use of print because print has to be translated into Braille by the software that runs the Braille display and marries it up to the computer. Of course, I'll admit I'm not sure how that whole thing works, but I think the rumors surrounding the death of print are greatly exaggerated, and given the advent of Braille displays, perhaps Braille as well.
I agree, and that's what I was trying to say. Literacy is what's on its way out, not Braille or print. I mean, who needs a spell checker when your tablet can do that for you? Or why bother to be a fluent typist when you can use Siri or Dragon to dictate? Those systems are flawed, but I think voice recognition will continue to grow. It is true that everything on a phone or tablet is still using print, so it can never really die out, but standards will slacken, just as they have with Braille.
You know what other skills are slackening, skinning. No one can kill and skin their own dinner anymore. I mean, if I took one of you guys to a lake, and you reeled in a fish, I bet twenty bucks you wouldn't have a clue how to gut and skin that thing. Its all these supermarkets I tell you. You can just go to the store and buy a fish now. You don't have to hunt for worms, cast a line, reel in the fish and gut it anymore. Its a travesty I say.
While we're on the topic, no one can ride a horse anymore. We've got all these drivin' contraptions that just wheel us about all willy nilly without a care in the world. Why, just the other day we had a big storm, and a good friend of mine was whining and carry on. "I can't go out in this," she said, "Its over the tires of my car." Well it wouldn't be over the legs of her horse or her covered wagon, I'll tell you that much for sure. People get all dependent on their fancy drivin' machines and forget all their real skills.
Yeah, are you getting how idiotic it sounds to complain that a tablet, from which you have to read print, is killing print? Think more and then come back and debate.
or, think about the fact that restaurants have printed menus. how in the world can you still say print is dying? I bet even your beloved union supports printed things!
In response to poster 141:
If you actually took the time and were more specific in your post by saying something along the lines of printed material I.E, on paper and the like are slowly becoming phased out, I might, -might- be inclined to agree with you, but even then only to a point. Many restaurants and the like for example, have begun offering their menus online, which means you can generally look them up on smart phones. Many newspapers and magazines have also started releasing their issues online as well as paper, though some have gone and phased out printed material as well. Many books are now available online utilizing devices and aps such as Kindle, iBooks, Bard, etc, as well as in actual braille and print paper formats. However, it will take a good long while before printed material is phased out completely and transformed to printed text only on a screen or tablet. It may even never happen. There have always been, and will always will be material that a person or group might deem to sensitive to entrust to a potentially hackable electronic device. Paper may become something that is used less, and it may even happen in our lifetimes, but in my opinion, it will never be phased out completely.
That is true, and if any of you were responding specifically to what I said, I apologize if I sounded like I was saying that print was going to drop off the face of the earth tomorrow. All I was saying, and I still stand by this, is that kids are exposed to more complicated technology at younger ages, and don't necessarily experience reading and writing in the same way as even people of my generation did. I'm not even sure whether that's good or bad, to be honest. It is what it is, but I can't wrap my mind around the concept of a bunch of kids who rely solely on tablets, laptops, etc. to get their work done. When I was growing up, I used a Braille writer, even though kids in my school hated it. They complained, they bitched, they threw stuff at me right in front of the teachers who didn't care, just because my loud Brailling supposedly "distracted them". I would often end up picking erasers and rubber bands out of my hair on a daily basis just because I deserved what I got, apparently, for being too loud. I doubt they amounted to much anyway. My point is, it's all about perspective. I was kind of caught in the middle. I had a Braille Lite 40 by the time I was about 10 or so, but teachers often sneered at it if I needed to charge it or something, claiming that I was just trying to get out of doing class work if I happened to need to plug it in. Now, I see that as being just plain idiotic, but I compare it to nowadays, and I wonder whether 6-year-olds are fighting over time spent at the two or three outlets in any given classroom to plug in their IPads.
And about twenty years ago or so kids used slide rules in math class. Now they use calculators that can do more and do it faster. Why do people think that the advance of technology is so bad? Yes, more complicated technology is being used nowadays. But you know what, those kids know more at ten than you did at ten. There are some slackers, sure, but the vast majority of kids nowadays are a lot smarter than kids used to be. Because of the advance of technology. I really don't get what anyone is complaining about.
GT, no one was referring to you, and I find it silly that you're so paranoid that you'll quickly form such a conclusion, just cause you automatically assume a certain thing.
I'll say this, though, GT. your outlook that the progression of technology being a bad thing, or one that hinders society, rather than helps it, is ridiculous.
as Cody said, today's young kids who use such devices, are far more smart than we were, at their age. they're much more willing to learn about what's new, instead of fixating on the way things used to be, touchscreens really being in, now, ETC. to me, that's a huge plus.
They've said all this about Braille since the days of tapes. Hell, they wouldn't even let me use an Optacon because it would interfere with my ability to use Braille, so they said.
So I have very little faith in the so-called experts. Oh, right, I have very little faith period. So that doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot. Oh, and get this, some schools didn't adopt Braille for the blind because it wasn't pleasing to the eye.
I use Braille and a display because it works for me. But I know very competent programmers, far better than I either am or ever will be, who use entirely speech, and by choice. And many fool ideologues would have a very difficult time arguing most things intelligently with those people.
So my answer? Clearly, I have no idea. I know it works for me, though. But remember as the experts prattle on like so many would-be recruiters to the next religion, that they've prattled on like this for decades, and the device called an Optacon which would allow a person to manually get a good look at printed characters, was seen to be something that interferes with Braille.
Just be as resourceful as yo can, I say, and let the dependent taxpayer-sponsored organizations who couldn't get work in the private sector do the prattling.
The only thing I would say, is you shouldn't take any agency for the blind seriously who claims Braille is so important for literacy, but doesn't have a program to get kids displays. It means they mean absolutely nothing, but just wanta talk, and their ideology would change to prattle against whatever is the next big technology.
Sure, if you're a Braille user like me, the prospect of always having to check every word and character with speech to see if it's written right is pretty daunting. In fact, they could call US lazy, since we want to look at a line of text at a glance to see if it's right, rather than cursor across it one thing at a time. I bet they can create an ideology / religion for that, if it'll get them a grant, don't you?
Speaking of Optacons, does anyone know where I can find one of those? I have never taken a good look at one before. An instructor and I used the draftsman from American Printing House for the Blind to aid me in improving my signature, but I found writing on that thermoform paper very frustrating. sorry to get off-topic.
I fucking hated thermoform!
For me braille is literacy I simply can't understand how it is possible education without learning how to write and read!
Now, having said that for me the problem is not braille on itself but the concept we have about braille!
For me of course we can't carry out books with 14 volumes everywhere but we can have hundreds of books stored in memory sticks, our phones, tablets, computers, braille displays memories, etc and read them with a braille display!
The problem here is that the technology of braille displays didn't develop much on last 20 or 30 years even and because of that, the price of this devices was not reduced enough yet!
I think that it is crucial that the price of braille displays goes down enough that people can really talk about massively learning and using braille.
And often a problem that happens to a lot of people is that we forget that we are not alone on the world and our country is not an example for everyone.
Last week I was in one african country and talking to their blind students or their government that they need to buy 3000 dollarrs devices for everyone or even 5000 dollars is a simple joke.
For me we have to find devices for less than 500 dolars in order to be serious about talking to massive access to braille.
I have to say that I use my braille displays in a daily basis and can't survive with them!
For example I have a braille display which is Active Braille from Handy Tech that allows me to scrole for the next line without pressing a button. It means the braille display detects the position of my fingers and scrolls itself for the next line.
I can tell you that this is better than reading a paper book. It's nice, fast, smooth and confortable.
Also I have a Focus 14 and it really changed my views about Braille. Portable braille and braille keyboard everywhere is a plesure and even myself who always used braille, I am surprised how much I use braille now.
Combination Iphone and Focus 14 is a winner couple!
Also I am a music teacher and for me for musicians braille is even more crucial: for learning score, ear is simply not enough because in a score you have messages that the composer sends you and only reading you can get them. Also you have expression symbols, dynamics, fingerings, etc that are more than necessary for a professional interpretation.
So yes braille is there and braille has to stay if we don't want to live apart from the society! That's my opinion!
Cheers,
Unrelated, but I'm so jealous of you for having the active braille. I'd give my first born child for one of those things.
The reason braille displays are so expensive is simple. It's the same reason why screen readers made by the various companies such as freedom scientific and GWMicro are expensive. Blind people do not make up a significant number of the country's population, let alone the world's population. Therefore, in order for those companies to even hope at making back the money that they pay their programmers and in the case of braille displays the designers and builders, is to raise the prices for them to higher levels than normal. There are organizations such as the commission for the blind, the lions club and other various state-sponsored organizations that try to help with the costs of those devices in order to keep the blind community caught up with the rest of the world, but it's not easy, especially if those organizations themselves are stripped of money by helping just anyone who asks for it. That's why they have to ensure that you actually do have a genuine need for it for things such as school, work or something similar before they will help you out.
Ok, whether it's on paper or on a screen, sighted people still read printed letters, which make up words, which make up sentences, which make up, well, you get the picture. The same is true for braille. It might be on paper, thermoform, label tape, or a braille display. Either way, braille equals literacy for the blind and should exist always.
I'll throw in my 2 cents. I won't give anybody my first born child because I kinda like him, but I'll give my eye teeth for a braille display. lol
I won't give my eye teeth, but I will get that damned Braille display once I get my Mac. Oh, and after I see California Boy and hopefully get me some.